Calvin Klein Mens by Italo Zucchelli | Photo: Karim Sadli for 032c

In Part I, we examined Italo Zucchelli’s philosophy of menswear. Today, we explore the designer’s creative process and approach to innovation.

NEW YORK, United States — A honeyed accent doesn’t give away Italo Zucchelli’s heritage as much as his ability to cut a jacket. A Wagnerian sense of color and experimental materials reveal professional stints with both Romeo Gigli and Jil Sander respectively. He may seem of a piece with European contemporaries like Prada or Raf Simons, but critic and friend Tim Blanks argues that Zucchelli is refining an entirely personal viewpoint, what he calls “subtle futurism,” an evolution sewn discreetly into every collection. Stitch by stitch it could add up to an altogether altered reality.

Everyone agrees Zucchelli has stepped into a big pair of shoes – a pair of Calvin’s as it were. He’s won respect for not kicking them off, but Zucchelli notes the paradox faced by a generation of talented designers who, like him, are breathing new life into old brands: “If all of us were strictly referential we would be criticized. It’s very important to respect the language and understand the staples, but also evolve because time moves on.”

With nearly two decades of witnessing audience reactions to every twist, fold and turn on the runway, Nian Fish warns that the pressure to innovate is ruthless: “If you are safe, they will kill you.” In her opinion, Zucchelli is moving not only the clothes, but also the whole brand forward. Forward? Fashion may innovate, but certainly not in the same way as technology, or does it?

It’s a common perception that men’s fashion is slow to change, and Zucchelli acknowledges that: “Few men will respond to a fantasy as freely as a woman.” However, he observes that many more men are interested in fashion today than a decade ago. In numbers alone, international consumption of men’s apparel and accessories had nearly caught up to women’s by 2000, and with increased freedom of choice.

In the years that preceded Zucchelli’s arrival at Calvin Klein, innovative menswear seems to have been largely defined by flashy changes in shape. New York Times reporter Eric Wilson recalls: “Thom Browne created the shrunken suit, Hedi Slimane the extremely fitted suit and Tom Ford the louche, high-waisted big lapel suit. They were contrasting looks but they worked all at the same time, making menswear feel very exciting all of a sudden.” Currently, Wilson believes, a band of niche designers has splintered menswear center stage leaving no clear headliner. Things are set for a major voice to rise. So the question facing Zucchelli, as Nian Fish puts it, “is how far to push without the shock of pushing too far.”

Are you ready? Cotton and metal weaves (2006); nylon moirés and PVC packaged wool (2007); silver PVCand mesh covered neoprene (2008); reflective wool and liquid twill; stretch, heat-bonded, debossed and molded foam wrapped in wool and nylon; punched and bonded paper-based fabric (2009); bark-texture coated cotton and heat-bonded Mylar; transparent nylon (2010); laminated nylon pile (2011); laser cut mesh cotton, resin suede bonded jersey (2012). Perhaps more than anyone in the field of luxury menswear, Zucchelli manipulates the genetic code of clothes, merging natural with synthetic materials as if engineering a sneaker, a car or the wardrobe of a Hollywood cyborg.

Zucchelli’s laboratory, a modest fluorescent-lit space with a discolored concrete floor, emerges from down a blaring all-white corridor in Calvin Klein’s 7th Avenue headquarters. The other surfaces are plastic laminate, the most ubiquitous and virtual of today’s architectural finishes, and they are pitch black. The contrast ignites my eyes. Everything looks sharp, most notably a few well-chosen crystals Zucchelli keeps by his desk. “The next time you are on the beach, pick up a grain of sand: that is a quartz crystal,” he says, explaining his fascination. “They are beautiful to look at and they have been used since the dawn of civilization. Our telecommunications system, like computers and telephones, is silicon-quartz based. Crystals have a ‘connecting’ power with other worlds or dimensions.”

Similarly, Zucchelli strives for higher-order connections in his working process. He almost never sits in his corner office, but prefers to share the open studio space with his five-person team listening to atmospheric and “mental” music. He favors small, well-appointed groups of “very good people that are happy and engaged.” Together they initiate every collection, which can include upwards of 40 pieces, by travelling, either to Los Angeles, London, Tokyo or Berlin on a scavenger hunt for books, magazines, vintage clothing and, most of all, ideas. At the moment I find myself looking at meticulous, hand-drawn sketches and material swatches the team is preparing for the Fall 2012 debut show in Milan.

Italo Zucchelli: I start every collection early. Nobody starts as early as I do. This is a system I inherited from Calvin. I never abandoned it because there is an ocean between us and where the clothes are produced. During the six-month process I get three fittings, which is a lot. It’s good. I can perfect things. The core concept I come up with now is what you are going to see in January. I say it because it has always been like that – that’s what I do.

Pierre Alexandre de Looz: What did you learn from working with Calvin Klein in the beginning?

I worked with him for three years and it was an amazing relationship. He always knew if he liked something or not. He solved things without compromise. I am similar in that sense. He was very quick. He made decisions almost immediately, which is very American. Europeans can be philosophical about things, but these are clothes! His response was very good, it was the main thing that allowed me to go in one direction or the other and then apply my European sense to make it the best possible. I learned the immediacy from him. I never heard him say, “I don’t know” … ever.

You never doubt yourself?

No I don’t. I question myself but not in that way. Last January the concept for the show was “protection” and I came up with it in August. Then we perfected the concept until the end.

Didn’t you tell me you have a German bent?

I joke about it.

You are being conceptually rigorous because you identify an idea and you stick with it. In other words, if I look at any collection, everything I see refers back to the exact concept you came up with in the beginning?

On the runway it is definitely the case. When you do a show the message should be self-explanatory. It’s important to express the vibe of it very clearly. Often it is verbalized at the beginning, but it can also happen towards the end. It helps the team to communicate and work together, and convey the construction of a mood.

To give it a name is to make it recognisable to everybody else, like the public and the press. Do you ever let yourself use more than a single word?

Yes, but I prefer one. I think it’s more powerful. I also like journalists who do their job when they see a show. I give them a word and they elaborate on it.

Is the person who wears your clothes American?

The world we live in now is global. People take planes the way we took buses 20 years ago. Of course different markets have different requirements. What I design is produced the same for every country, but retailers in each area purchase different elements, based on what they think they can sell. What you see in a runway show is only a third of what compromises a complete collection and the rest appears in the showroom for the buyers. The show gives a message to the journalists. The buyers however see the depth of collection in the showroom. The presentation is an edit and we aim for consistency. I could do a show where every outfit is different but it would be completely wrong and the press would get confused. You have to meet commercial needs.

So how do you keep your audience interested?

Instead of giving you a flannel blazer, which will always be in the collection, I might use a fabric that looks like flannel from afar but in reality it’s a techno-fabric mixing black and white; it’s a texture and it’s nylon; it doesn’t crease and it makes you look very sharp and modern. For Fall 2008 I used a thermo-fabric that loses color based on body heat. On the runway, the material gave off an impression of the model’s chest. These special effects are made to look effortless and it’s a way of updating familiar clothes.

As a matter of fact, some of your designs would not look out of place on a CG character like the T1000 Terminator. What kind of special effects, to use the term loosely, do you think men are prepared to wear today that they would not have accepted so easily in the past?

Men want more color. They do plastic surgery, use facial products, exfoliate and hydrate. I don’t think men will be wearing lipstick, but men’s make-up will become mainstream.

What are the most technologically challenging pieces you’ve ever created?

We created a Mylar suit, although it’s not really a fabric, for Fall 2010. The concept of that collection was protection and Mylar, which is used for marathon blankets, is very thin, light and insulating. It also has great texture and nothing else quite gives you that effect. Mylar is only produced in silver, so we found an American manufacturer who could print color on the material. When we started making the pieces, which were heat-bonded, we found that the color would melt and fade in the heat, so we had to start over. We learned we had to face it with a protective layer. It was a whole process that took three or four months to develop and the manufacturer doesn’t speed up just because you have a fashion show! We managed to include the pieces in the show and they looked great on the runway, but it was very challenging. These types of pieces are very specific and are not necessarily bestsellers, but the Mylar suits actually went into production and were well photographed.

What’s your advice for my fashion well-being?

Be yourself is the golden rule. It is very important to choose clothes that represent your personality. Choosing clothes is one of the most powerful ways to express who you are. You should wear the clothes and not the other way around. You also can’t look in the mirror for hours or be too analytical and obsessive about being perfect, because it will feel and look contrived, especially in a man. That’s what’s strong about the American fashion spirit and why sportswear was invented here. It is casual, less studied and spontaneous. That language really speaks to me because that’s how I choose and wear clothes myself. I almost never look at myself in the mirror.

This article was written by architect and writer Pierre Alexandre de Looz and was first published by 032c. Click here for a preview of the current issue 0f 032c.

Calvin Klein Menswear by Italo Zucchelli | Photo: Karim Sadli for 032c

In an exclusive two part interview, courtesy of our friends at 032c, Pierre Alexandre de Looz explores the work of Italo Zucchelli, Calvin Klein men’s collection creative director, known for grafting the infallible promise of technology — the 21st century’s cultural hope — to the fibre of masculine elegance. Today, in Part I, we examine Zucchelli’s menswear philosophy.

NEW YORK, United States — Snug. Well cut. Brilliant. A smack-your-lips example of product design, it defines a point of no return in menswear that equates less with the demise of the top hat than the birth of the iPod. In the story you are about to read, nearly everyone had something to say about Calvin Klein underwear, even the bootlegged kind: MoMA PS1 Curator Klaus Biesenbach, for instance, purchased emergency briefs after losing his luggage on a trip to China and “they are still going strong,” he said, 10 years later. Minimal, clear and universally known, they are like the dark slab of Kubrick’s Space Odyssey, a portal to somewhere beyond our tatty reality. Welcome to the tailored universe of Calvin Klein Men.

Beyond the spread of new men’s fashion rags, growing menswear revenues, and greater assimilation of male customers into the larger fashion system, the Calvin Klein identity sets an ideal stage for modern menswear. If fashion historian Anne Hollander is correct, that “Male dress was always essentially more advanced than female dress throughout fashion history, and tended to lead the way, to set the standard, to make aesthetic propositions to which female fashion responded,” then menswear is the future and the Calvin Klein man is like modernity to the second degree, our escort on the red carpet to a distant horizon.

Italo Zucchelli, an Italian-born designer picked by Mr. Klein, has directed the brand’s Men’s Collection since 2004. I dress as a man, and from this perspective, fashion seems more of a problem than a pastime, a frankly stiffer medium of self-expression than it has been for women. Zucchelli on the other hand doesn’t seem to shoulder any grudges. He wears New Balance sneakers as pleasantly as his Buddha-like face. Nian Fish, 18-year veteran of the KCD production agency and now an independent creative director, tells me, “People don’t get stressed around Italo because you ride his wave of being present and in the moment. He is very light.” Biesenbach, a friend, adds, “He is so modest and at the same time very precise – a rare quality.”

True enough, meeting Zucchelli was light, clear and precise like the tubular steel armchair that graces his living room, a signature Starck design of 1983. A large-scale print of model David Agbodji’s naked back, a molten monolith from Calvin Klein’s Spring and Fall 2010 campaigns sits close. More effusive than his portrait let on, Agbodji later confided: “Italo is probably the nicest, down to earth person I know in this business. Working with him greatly changed my own style. I had no clue how much I love modern minimalism until him.”

Zucchelli invited me to sit at a comfortable distance from the overpowering photo. I hoped to learn a lesson similar to Agbodji’s, to understand Zucchelli’s world and philosophy of menswear. We sank into a soft gray couch that frames the view of midtown from his penthouse apartment. Reflecting on a skyline built of testosterone, I asked, “Should a man dress to show his power?”

“A man should dress to show who he is,” Zucchelli replied. His tautology dispelled any hopes I had of borrowing an identity from anyone or anything outside myself.

Editors and retailers alike appreciate Zucchelli’s no-nonsense focus. Reporter Eric Wilson from The New York Times explains: “He tends to start with a clean line that’s very accessible and adds elements that are more challenging and unusual, but always in a way that a customer can relate to. Italo keeps in mind that he is designing for men and not women, that there is a real world outside the bubble of fashion insiders. It’s a big mistake that a lot of designers make, especially the Europeans.”

Zucchelli keeps a constant reminder of American “realness” in his corner office, a portrait of bulging bare-chested Marlon Brando posing as Stanley Kowalski from the 1951 movie A Street Car Named Desire. Zucchelli has never removed his vintage paperback copy of Tennessee William’s play from its cellophane slip, as if to contain the power of its iconic cover model. Idols like Brando or James Dean served as widely accepted prototypes of masculine style, especially in the way they galvanized a generation of casual dressers (T-shirts and jeans), but was it them or the characters they played? Is Zucchelli thinking of Brando or Kowalski, or both?

David Agbodji, for example, defined the Calvin Klein man like this: “extremely confident and fearless, strong, in great shape and super duper confident. Classic American superheroes like Bruce Wayne or Superman come to mind.” But, how real is Superman? He may be more real than you think. The image of “real men,” particularly in American culture, combines fiction and fact to a degree where the two are inseparable, indistinguishable even.

Italo Zucchelli: When I do a collection I think about the things men would want to wear. On the other hand, when I do a fashion show I have to create a fantasy. My ideal is to reach a perfect balance. It’s like a perfect pop song. It is the most difficult thing to achieve for an artist: to create something that may not seem commercial, expressing his or her creativity to the fullest, and then to see it become a commercial success. Kate Bush’s first single “Wuthering Heights” comes to mind. She was 19 and she sang a song that in 1978 was not what the radio would play – just a girl with a piano and a voice. She fought to release it as her first single (her record company favored another song). It made her a star immediately, number one all over Europe. It was the perfect combination of creativity and commercial success and it’s very inspiring.

Pierre Alexendre de Looz : Perhaps the consumer we think exists is just a fantasy?

I recently read that Steve Jobs avoided focus groups. He believed you have to show people what they want and he proved it. The iPod is a great example. I obsess over music and to me it was revolutionary; a minimal and perfectly designed object that everybody uses, and the most commercially successful product of the last decade. Jobs was incredibly clever and intuitive. I’m fascinated by the fact he applied Zen principles in his “creative strategy” and the result was pure innovation.

How do you use intuition?

Without comparing myself to Jobs, I’ll give you an example. I wanted to use neon color for a while. I debated whether it was chic enough and the many ways to use it. Suddenly, in a vintage store in LA, I saw a wet suit with perfect neon colors. I thought it was a message and decided it was the right time. I assumed the fluorescent suits would simply be an editorial piece, but they did not even arrive in stores – people bought them over the phone! There was clapping in the middle of the show – it was a real moment.

How do you keep your intuitions fresh?

Transcendental meditation. Intuition is something everybody has and meditation is a great way to develop it. I was given a mantra 20 years ago. I sit down and close my eyes, repeating the mantra for 20 minutes. It’s a tool. I would do it even if I cultivated tomatoes because I love it!

What defines the style of American men?

On an elemental level there is a casual, less conceptual or philosophical way of living in America. American men have been trained to take good care of their bodies, practicing a sport or working out at the gym. It’s very different from Europe.

It’s an obvious exception to the distinction you just made, but what do you think of Versace’s menswear from the 90s, since his men were on an American scale?

I thought it was fantastic. It was the opposite of what was going on and it marked the moment of Versace’s career when he enjoyed his greatest success. Sadly, he died shortly after. I see the 90s as a reaction to the 80s, which were about flamboyance and excess. You could design anything, even skirts for men. It would sell and people would wear it. Then came the Gulf War and we entered a major recession. Fashion in the 90s turned to purity. It was almost “non-design” – the opposite of 80s maximalism. But then, Versace became even more baroque. He was making people dream in sad times, you might say. Did I wear it? No, it wasn’t for me. But, it was fun. He invented the super models. He worked with Bruce Weber and Avedon. He created the kind of excitement that fashion always needs.

If the Calvin Klein identity were ever to part ways with minimalism, it will have taken a radical turn; yet, you seem to flirt with the possibility. Do you ever let yourself be kitschy?

In a sort of minimal way, I actually did for one of my earliest runway shows (Spring 2007). The aesthetic was clean, of course, but I sent some models down the runway with leggings (I don’t think anybody got it, but I pretended they were the kind of swimsuit worn by Australian surfers.) When the first of the legging models came off the runway he said, “I think I caused a stir!” That was the show where everything changed: people gasped. It was borderline underwear, borderline kitsch without having to do skirts or brocade. I had taken a staple of American sportswear and combined it with the sex value of the Calvin Klein brand. One reviewer said that you could see whether the models were circumcised or not! A lot of people laughed and some didn’t like it at all, but you need these moments! The midriff T-shirt (Spring 2011) was also very risqué. In eight years it was the most photographed item I’ve designed!

You sexualized the man but did you also feminize him?

Androgyny as a concept was one of the things that drew me the most to the brand because I was always fascinated by it, but especially androgynous women. That’s why I love Tilda Swinton, Annie Lennox, and Grace Jones. David Bowie is on the other side. In fact, I hope Tilda Swinton will play David Bowie in a movie someday. She would be perfection in the role, not least because she is playing a man. There is something extremely modern about the genders coming together, or men and women who dress alike. Calvin always played with that. Even Kate Moss was a creature in the beginning. She was a girl but also otherworldly. That’s the power of unisex. I grew up with this fascination. Even if I am unaware of it, this attitude will come out of what I do from deep inside my imagination.

But you grew up in a country where the gender roles are so clear?

That’s probably why I was fascinated with the middle, as a rebellion.

Are you familiar with Fellini’s sketches where he imagines a muscle woman whose clitoris stands erect like a penis? Modern androgyny was probably invented in Italy.

The Park Hyatt in Tokyo has those drawings on display! It’s an ancient tradition, but that’s where we are headed. The future will be less worried about gender and it will be reflected in clothes.

You are nudging us there! Your collections could be described as a battle between the T-shirt, which is increasingly genderless, and the man’s collar shirt. Lately, the traditional men’s shirt seems to be losing.

Lately, it’s true. T-shirts are very American; just think of James Dean! I was not born here, so I fantasize about the American look – again, we go back to the fashion fantasy. How do I make menswear look relevant and iconic but at the same time highly designed? The T-shirt is the number one staple of American sportswear and the American identity.

Nevertheless you’ve manipulated the traditional shirt. Would you call that fashion in its truest sense – because you are making small changes to a prototype, and these changes can cycle from season to season – or is this what we call progress?

To achieve any results in fashion, it takes time; that’s why I have three fittings in my process. Every collection starts from what you achieved in the last one. Menswear elements like the suit are subtle, whereas sportswear can be extreme and bolder and it’s easier to update. In menswear you have more rules and fewer elements than in women’s fashion, which I like. I find it more challenging to achieve something new while staying within the rules, or, you might say, breaking but not destroying the rules.

Hindsight shows us moments when contemporary fashion reached decisive points, like the little black dress or pantyhose. Do you have any inkling what the next major step for menswear will be?

When Chanel did the little black dress, fashion as we know it was at its beginning. She was a genius, but she arrived at a point when women were still wearing frocks. She simplified the woman. When Giorgio Armani put women in suits, that was genius and both times fashion was still young. These kinds of avenues have been well explored. I am not sure a statement as vast could be made now. My biggest fantasy for the future is that we’ll be able to disappear and not even need clothes. When we live on spaceships, maybe then someone will come up with something as groundbreaking as Chanel.

So, the revolution will come from life and fashion will respond. Thinking back over the last 60 years, who together with Armani has shaped menswear to modern life?

Armani created the power suit for both men and women and empowered women to be as powerful as men. He also created a whole new language, still very relevant today, for men in business and for celebrities – think of Richard Gere in American Gigolo. He created an effortless, everyday man that lives in a modern world, unfussy and real. He always speaks about sobriety. That is his mantra. His company is 30 years old this year, but something so good doesn’t have an expiration date. Helmut Lang created something very sleek, street cool and desirable, especially for men. He defined an era and it was a big loss when he retired. I wore a lot of his clothes because they fit me so well – like a reflective pair of pants!

What other American designers besides Calvin Klein attracted your attention?

Stephen Sprouse was the only alternative designer in America that I was interested in as a student. I never wore anything by him, but I know his vintage is hard to find, and expensive. The fluorescent colors, graphics, graffiti and punkiness; everything about it was underground.

In a similar way, Hedi Slimane has been recognized as having applied countercultural references to men’s tailoring. How do you describe his contribution?

He brought back youth culture. He influenced fashion through the shape he created – a skinny idealistic guy – which was androgynous in a way. All his muses are very young. I relate to his music interests and his interest in the underground, which is where everything comes from.

In the Wim Wenders movie A Notebook on Cities and Clothes from 1989, you see Yohji Yamamoto explaining his love of August Sander’s photographs. They are predominantly images of early 20th century working class men whose clothes are loosely fitted. It reveals a secret code of fashion: if something fits perfectly, it looks tailored and non-proletarian. You are clearly obsessed with precision, so what does looseness mean to you, and how do you use it?

I recently started doing over-sized shapes – let’s use that word – in sportswear. For Fall 2011 I did a bomber and I wanted to make the classic bomber even rounder, to emphasize the iconic. Yamamoto is a master and Japanese fashion has been over-sized since the beginning. But, I would never do this with a suit.

Tomorrow, in Part II, we explore the designer’s creative process and approach to innovation.

This article was written by architect and writer Pierre Alexandre de Looz and was first published by 032c. Click here for a preview of the current issue 0f 032c.

Tom Murry | Photo: Danny Clinch

LONDON, United Kingdom — It’s not every day that you get to meet a CEO who oversees a fashion brand which does more than $7 billion in sales at retail. Indeed, Calvin Klein is one of the most successful American fashion businesses of the last 25 years.

But the Calvin Klein business is markedly different from many of its peers (particularly those based in Europe) in that it is almost entirely a licensing business, with scores of different agreements with partners who design, produce and sell Calvin Klein branded products from underwear to jeans to fragrances, and then pay a royalty on sales back to Calvin Klein.

In recent years, while some other fashion brands have been buying back their licensees, Calvin Klein has continued to push forward with a model that was born early in the history of the business, when Calvin Klein himself was still designing for the brand. Based on the success of this model, the Calvin Klein business was acquired by PVH Corporation in 2003, a massive brand conglomerate which also owns other licensed fashion brands Tommy Hilfiger, Van Heusen, IZOD, ARROW and Bass.

The day after a dinner in London to celebrate the Design Museum’s new home at the former Commonwealth Institute, I sat down with Tom Murry, chief executive of Calvin Klein, to learn more about how he makes this licensing model work.

BoF: Having grown up in North America, Calvin Klein was a brand that was everywhere I looked. But here in Europe, the brand doesn’t seem to have as much of a presence. Could you talk a little bit about your priorities for the European market and how this compares to your presence in Asia, where I understand your business is quite big?

Tom Murry: It’s deceiving what you observe, and sometimes this is different from reality. We actually do about 30 percent of our business in Europe, 50 percent in the US and about 20 percent in Asia. So we actually do more business here [in Europe] than we do in Asia.

We also have more free-standing stores here than we have in Asia. Our business model for Europe is primarily a free-standing store model. We do sell to department stores, but the most important part of our business model for Europe and Asia is free-standing stores.

BoF: Stores directly owned and operated by you?

TM: No, not directly owned by us. We operate primarily a licensing model, so we want our licensees to operate a lot of those stores directly. It’s a model that works very well. If you have really good licensees and philosophically they are on the same page — that is, as it relates to protecting the brand while they are growing revenue — then it works very well.

We are fortunate enough to have this today, but it wasn’t always that way. We have been here for 15 years now and we have weeded out the bad [licensees] and replaced them with good ones, Warnaco is our biggest licensee and we have a very good relationship with them, it’s a global jeans license; a global underwear license.

BoF: Yes, I understand that in all there are more than 40 licensing agreements across multiple geographies, and product categories. I’m curious about the decision to operate the business in the way that you do, when so many other brands seem to be buying their licensees out to take things back in-house. When a lot of the operations and consumer-facing elements are managed by others, you might not have as much control as you would were you to own everything. But the flipside is that to grow the business you require less capital to open stores, for example.

TM: Actually the way it works, we have complete control. We control everything. Our contracts are incredibly comprehensive. If you were to walk into a store, there is nothing about that store that we didn’t design or approve. The location, the design of the store, retail fit out, the fixtures, often the product mix that goes in there, all the creative, all the advertising, whether it be institutional or co-op advertising, the visuals.

Now having said that, we have over 700 free-standing stores around the world, and many, many more points of sale and shop in shops, but we really track the free-standing stores as they are really important branding platforms as well as revenue drivers.

BoF: How do you oversee such a vast network of stores to ensure the consumer experience and brand communication are in line with your vision?

TM: It’s difficult. We can’t really keep an eye on 700 different stores and more, so that part relates back to my earlier comments about having a licensee that’s on the same page and understands that it benefits them as much as it benefits us to protect the brand and do the right thing for the brand, and follow the guidelines we set.

We do spot checks all the time, all over the place, and we do have offices in Milan, Hong Kong and Tokyo. If we do see something we are not happy with, or we don’t agree with, then we communicate immediately with the licensee and get it fixed up.

We didn’t really sit back 15 years ago and say, ‘You know what, we are going to operate a licensing model instead of an operating model.’ What happened was we already had a big licensing business.

BoF: From the legacy of Calvin Klein himself?

TM: Yes. I remember sitting with Calvin, probably 14 or 15 years ago, and talking about [our] need to hire people all over the world to watch everything, not quite to that effect, but we need this large army of people to make sure all of licensees are doing the right thing wherever they are.

I said, ‘I understand the concept but it’s not practical, we’d have to hire thousands of people.’ From a financial standpoint that would not be feasible. What we needed was to get rid of some of these bad licensees, and replace them with world class, top quality, professional people that want to protect the brand as much as we want to protect the brand. So that’s what we set out to do..

BoF: And you also control all the marketing in-house?

TM: Yes, we have an in-house advertising agency, we have an in-house PR firm, we have a large in-house design organization, which either designs virtually every bit of product in the whole world or approves it. Philosophically, We don’t always care as much who designs it as long as it’s great product and looks like Calvin and we approve it.

BoF: Do you think the consumer understands the relationship between all of the Calvin Klein sub-brands? You’ve even launched apparel off CKOne, which itself started as a fragrance line. With so much different branding around Calvin Klein, how do you keep it straight in the consumer’s mind?

TM: Anytime you operate in multiple price zones, there is a risk of some confusion, whether it’s us, Armani, Ralph Lauren or any others. Ralph Lauren is an incredible company, and they have even more zones than we do.

In the research that we do, when speaking to consumers [we find that] they look at it more simplistically than we in the industry do. To them it’s all Calvin Klein and if they come into a store and they like the product, they buy it. They don’t think ‘Oh wow this is confusing to me, because which Calvin Klein is this?’ It’s Calvin Klein and they purchase it.

We’ve done seven or eight studies over the years, not only in the US but throughout Europe, I think that’s the way it breaks down. But each one of our sub-brands stands for something different: the prices ranges are different; the target consumer range is different.

But having said that, I think we are in all the businesses, for the most part, that we should be in. We get requests every week. Almost anything you can think of comes across my desk and of course we turn things down. The first thing we [ask] in any new business category is: ‘Is this going to be brand enhancing?’ And if we are sure it’s going to enhance the brand then we will start to think about the revenue opportunity.

BoF: Of course, the one business that you do own and operate in house is Calvin Klein Collection, designed by Francisco Costa and Italo Zucchelli. And just based on my very rough, back-of-the-envelope calculations, it’s a very small part of your overall business and probably represents quite a large cost: the shows, the advertising, the designers. What is the role you see for Calvin Klein Collection as a marketing tool and what role does it play as a business that actually contributes to the bottom line?

TM: Well it’s not a business that contributes to the bottom line and it probably never will be. For us, it’s a marketing expense and we generate an incredible amount of editorial that is based on being in that business. The PR department creates over $400 million a year in equivalent editorial, which is massive and which we believe has a very significant impact on our brand image globally. It’s a very small business, but a very important business. It’s the only business we are in that doesn’t lend itself to the licensing model. The reason for that primarily is that it requires a lot of investment to do it right and it’s usually not a money maker, and if it is a money maker it’s fairly minimal in terms of the return.

The business was slowly going down, so we brought it back in house with Spring 2009 and we’ve steadily been improving the business: the execution, the delivery, the quality, the consistency, all of those things which requires a lot of capital. But, we feel that it’s worth it and we are still not anywhere near where we expect to be. It’s a ten year project, it’s not a five year project. We are very, very committed to it because we really want to develop a commercial success that matches the press success that we are currently enjoying and that’s going to take time.

Right now, our fastest growing business is in Asia. We are doing very well there and we are talking to a luxury retailer over there about them taking over all of Asia, opening flagships in Shanghai, Beijing.

I spend more time on that little business than any single little business, because (a) it’s very important and (b) because it’s the most complicated business we’re in.

BoF: If Calvin Klein Collection is generating $400 million of press coverage for you, is that ultimately what drives the sale of underwear and fragrance? Have you been able to draw links between the two?

TM: It’s very hard to quantify. What we do hear when we do consumer research is that it impacts what they think about the brand; what they see as the brand image. From a practical standpoint, every time we dress one of these celebrities they end up in all of the grocery tabloids. Those absolutely influence the department store consumer for example. The people that generally shop in grocery stores and read those magazines aren’t luxury consumers, but that consumer is influenced by that and we get a tremendous amount of coverage. This year, the increase in coverage we had at all of the awards shows was amazing. It was like three or four times the previous year, so that’s really important, really significant. We believe as a return, it’s probably more brand image than it is driving someone to a store to buy something, but we still consider it to have very significant value.

BoF: If they can’t buy a Calvin Klein Collection gown, then maybe they can afford Calvin Klein underwear?

TM: Underwear is usually how a young person is introduced to this brand, more on the men’s side than the women’s side. We’ve learnt this from research too. The first item they’d have was a pair of Calvin Klein underwear.

BoF: When I think of Calvin Klein underwear I think of those Kate Moss ads; those Marky Mark ads. It was really the first aspirational product for that kind of consumer with that kind of fashion branding. But that model has been rolled out, not just by fashion companies like Armani and D&G, but by all sorts of other companies. Can you tell me a little bit about how you see your position in the market and how you protect the equity that you’ve built?

TM: There is more competition and it is more difficult, yet it’s still great business and it’s still growing between five and ten percent every year off a big, big base. The way that we do that is through very frequent product innovation and very powerful marketing that supports it. That’s the way you stay ahead.

CEO Talk is BoF’s forum for in-depth discussions with the fashion industry’s global decision makers, conducted by BoF founder and editor-in-chief, Imran Amed.

Uniqlo 5th Avenue Flagship in New York | Source: High Snobiety

Fast Retailing May Buy Bigger Rival in U.S., Europe on Yen (Bloomberg)
“Fast Retailing Co., Asia’s largest clothing chain, may buy a bigger rival in the U.S. or Europe after the yen’s advance to a postwar high against the dollar boosted the Japanese company’s purchasing power… The billionaire aims to take advantage of the yen’s climb to expand outside Japan, where an unexpectedly long summer damped demand for fall and winter clothing, contributing to a 12 percent decline in profit in the year through August.”

Calvin Klein’s largest market outside the US – China (Red Luxury)
“Outside of the US, China is Calvin Klein’s largest market with 50 percent annual sales growth for the past two years. Its China business has pulled ahead of other international markets… The company continues to expect stellar growth ahead. ‘Our business grew 50 percent in 2010, it will grow 50 percent this year and the way we’re going, we could see 50 percent again next year,’ said Tom Murry, chief executive officer and president of Calvin Klein. ‘Our global business has been growing at 10 to 15 percent, so you can see the business here is outpacing the global business by a long shot.’”

Gareth Pugh: His Dark Materials (Independent)
“‘She’s very beautiful. But she looks like she might kill you,’ says Gareth Pugh of model Alla Kostromichova, the lovely if admittedly somewhat intimidating face of his soon-to-launch, limited-edition line of make-up and accessories, designed in collaboration with Mac. And that just about sums up not only the designer’s aesthetic more broadly, but also this latest venture.”

Gucci coup: the Italian fashion house celebrates 90 years in fashion (Telegraph)
“If an essential element of a successful luxury brand is its history and heritage, then Gucci’s is more richly textured than most. In this, the 90th year since the establishment of the first Gucci boutique, the company has celebrated the opening of the Gucci museum in Florence, its founding city.”

Pierre Cardin on banks and working at 89 (BBC News)
“He began his career making costumes for the film-maker Jean Cocteau. Christian Dior took him under his wing and he launched his own label in 1950… In 1959, Cardin courted their further contempt when he launched the first ever ‘pret-a-porter’ (ready-to-wear) show for the mass market. Later he went into merchandising in a major way, with hundreds of Cardin franchises all over the world, many of them not exactly top-of-the-range.”

Fern Mallis and Calvin Klein by John Calabrese | Source: WWD

The House That Calvin Klein Built (WWD)
“Omnipresent as Calvin Klein is throughout the world, the man behind the brand has a reputation for being anything but that… Yet during a rare public tête-à-tête with Fern Mallis Monday night, the designer opened up… No subject seemed to be too personal for the 68-year-old Klein, who appeared relaxed and affable throughout the interview — his first at 92Y in 12 years.”

Flash sales pioneer Vente-Privee targets U.S. (Reuters)
“Vente-Privee, the French start-up that pioneered the now much-imitated model of on-line flash sales, plans to launch its U.S. website by mid-November in partnership with American Express and aims to reach $500 million in sales in the ultra-competitive market in the next five years.”

A Site for Do-Gooders Who Want to Look Good, Too (WSJ)
“Move over, Gilt and Net-A-Porter. These innovators in selling high fashion online are being joined today by Community Collection – a new web company that is marrying several post-financial-crisis cultural phenomenon into one url:  People who want to donate to good causes, can do so by buying fashion online.”

Luxury retailers eye “bleak to chic” east London (Reuters)
“Shoreditch is set to be home to a “mini Bond Street” as luxury fashion houses Christian Louboutin, Ralph Lauren and Vivienne Westwood home in on London’s east end, setting the stage for a possible doubling of rents over five years. The three fashion houses, which have sites in high-end areas of London’s traditional West End shopping district, are among luxury retailers targeting the once down-at-heel Shoreditch to capitalise on its edgy image, lower rents and increasingly affluent population”

Birth of a Salesman (WSJ)
“In the summer of 1994, Mr. Bezos quit his job in New York as a vice president at the financial-services firm D.E. Shaw… Moved to Seattle to take advantage of the explosive growth of the Internet and to start Amazon… Mr. Bezos’s unusual management style began to develop. He’s not always a “nice” CEO. He can inspire and cajole but also irritate and berate. He can see the big picture—and micromanage to distraction. He’s quirky, brilliant and demanding.”

Alexander McQueen Spring/Summer 2011 Runway | Source: Style.com

Sarah Burton steals the show in Paris (Guardian)
“It was undoubtedly the most anticipated debut at Paris fashion week… In an extraordinarily beautiful show, Burton succeeded in both being faithful to the late designer’s distinctive design ethos while taking the label into a new era.”

In Bloom: Miu Miu Comes of Age (WSJ)
“After living in Prada’s shadow for years, the label is finding that its moves to carve out an independent identity have paid off… [Sales at Miu Miu] have more than doubled in the past four years.”

Prada considers listing in Hong Kong (FT)
“People familiar with Prada say in a buoyant market it could be worth €5bn to €6bn. A decision on a listing, which could involve the issue of new shares, is expected to be taken by the end of the year.”

Warnaco Group acquires Italian retail network (Just Style)
“The Warnaco Group, has acquired twenty-two Calvin Klein Jeans retail stores and related assets from its largest Italian franchise partner, L’Innominato S.p.A, a part of the Percassi Group.”

‘Real women’ elbow girls off the catwalks (AFP)
“Designers no longer want to show underage girls who are not yet women… There is a move back towards mature, confident women, who are afraid of nothing and who are comfortable in what they are wearing.”

Marks & Spencer, photo courtesy of the Sun UK.

Marks & Spencer to Cut 1,230 Jobs (WWD)
Marks & Spencer’s chairman expects its “gross profit margin to be 1.75 percentage points lower than the previous year,” and plans to cut 1,230 jobs.

New Year, bad news (Just Style)
The “disastrous holiday sales will spark a domino effect of store closures and bankruptcy filings over the next couple of months.”

Calvin Klein, Michael Kors Confirmed For New York Fashion Week (WSJ)
Not everyone is bowing out of fashion week as IMG confirms the shows of Calvin Klein and Donna Karan.

Iconix’s New Latin America Joint Venture (WSJ)
Iconix, which owns Candies and Badgley Mischka, will distribute its brands to Latin America in a joint effort with New Brands Americas LLC.